RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 16, 2022 17:56:04 GMT -7
RyanAK said, "Hope you don’t take offense!" Absolutely not. I was just curious how it made its way from then to now. A big part of my enjoyment of the hobby is sharing information of any kind, both give and take. Spence Me too, friend! If I have info, I’ll happily share it.
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Post by paranger on May 16, 2022 17:56:55 GMT -7
Here’s a closeup of the belt bag from the c.1752 image above. View AttachmentLooks a lot like the "Lyman" pouch.
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Post by artificer on May 17, 2022 3:57:09 GMT -7
As to shot pouch size. I'm not convinced that just because our few extant examples are small in size that this means they were day pouches used only for close to home hunts. I'm of the opinion that a lot of the other stuff that might be needed to maintain the gun was carried in another bag. That only that which was needed for immediate loading and firing of the gun was kept in the shot pouch. I've experienced the frustration of reaching into a too large and too filled pouch only to have to rummage through stuff not immediately needed to get what I need. As to a larger pouch in use by an upper class hunter on his own property, I do also find that I need a little more room for those immediate need items when out exclusively for game taken with shot from a fowling piece. Needs for the rifle are much more simple. I didn't mean to hijack this thread on a discussion of Shot Pouches/Bags, but it seems I've done that. So my apologies to RyanAK for having done that. I've been collecting some pics/links to original pouches with the intention of starting a new thread and I think that may be a better place to continue discussing this subject. Gus
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 17, 2022 6:13:37 GMT -7
No worries, friend! This thread sorta started as a way for me to organize the material culture of my impression. Then I got a hair and made a spreadsheet about cloth color in period paintings. Which led to looking at footwear. And now pouches. I see this all being on point. Who knows what we’ll pull up next on this thread to discuss. Maybe… hats?! But if you start a new thread, I’ll jump in!
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Post by artificer on May 17, 2022 21:13:23 GMT -7
No worries, friend! This thread sorta started as a way for me to organize the material culture of my impression. Then I got a hair and made a spreadsheet about cloth color in period paintings. Which led to looking at footwear. And now pouches. I see this all being on point. Who knows what we’ll pull up next on this thread to discuss. Maybe… hats?! But if you start a new thread, I’ll jump in! Thanks Ryan, In the meanwhile, maybe this link has two or three portraits you may not have had? contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2013/01/18th-century-sportsmen-and-their-dogs.htmlGus
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 18, 2022 8:19:19 GMT -7
Thanks, Gus! There were a couple!
Hats… for Pennsylvania, German-Swiss middle class fellow traveling to the frontier in the 1750s. I’m very weak when it comes to civilian hardware and could use some advice. Cocked hat seems appropriate, but I’ve read that the style changed throughout the century, so that a cocked hat worn during the AWI isn’t necessarily suitable for a 1750s impression. Round hats with broad and narrow brims, Pennsylvania fantail, Quaker, cocked… was there a style that was predominantly worn by Pennsylvania Germans?
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 26, 2022 17:07:06 GMT -7
Just to show that my insanity knows no bounds… Also… seriously. Hats.
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Post by brokennock on May 27, 2022 7:04:40 GMT -7
I don't think you cab go wrong with the standard low domed, round top, hat with a brim from 4 to 6 inches (maybe more narrow for some ranger type impressions) anywhere in the colonies. Cocked, uncocked, tricorn, they are all represented.
I try to balance period examples with my own needs and safety concerns in the woods. I try not to wear black in the woods during spring turkey season, or white during deer season. So, unless I'm going to wear two different hats depending on season (which isn't an option financially and I doubt would be hc/pc) a black hat for me is out, even though it is said to be the most common.
You have an amazing collection of paintings and period examples. Develope your criteria and find one in those samples that is workable to meet those criteria.
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Post by brokennock on May 27, 2022 7:13:21 GMT -7
Here are some pics from my own hat making adventure. I started with the better quality of the two prelined hats from Jas. Townsend. Not a difficult project, but tedious. Tedious enough that I don't want to stitch that edge binding again. I wish I had made the brim a half inch to an inch narrower. I've also since added a "sweatband" of chamois leather loosely sewn to the liner. I might redo that as now the hat is a little tight front to back, but the extra material isn't an issue at the sides. Looking for a pic of the finished project
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Post by brokennock on May 27, 2022 7:22:48 GMT -7
Found. Please excuse the model, best I could do at the time. I wish I could have done a more tidy job of finishing the ends of the edge binding. I think these pics were taken before I applied some shellac to it to help with weather proofing.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 27, 2022 10:17:04 GMT -7
Nice work with the hat blank! Model looks… pensive. Ha. I’m going through images. I’m a hat guy and I’ll spend as much time in the ‘moaning chair’ pondering a hat choice as I’ve spent considering a flintlock. I think a headcover sets a persona’s position, status and character as much as any other piece of costuming. So I ponder. Hunting in December and January will see a knit cap or Canadian. But for the ‘living history’ impression I have a lot to consider. Round hat? With a side cocked? Tricorn? When did the fantail style become prevalent? Here’s one style I’ve considered. BTW… I have a black ‘slouch’ from Clearwater that is a magnificent hat. It hurt to beat the hell out of it to make it appropriate for a late-war Federal impression. Apparently it shrank a bit over the years… or my head got fat. But Clearwater makes a lovely product.
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Post by Black Hand on May 27, 2022 10:34:02 GMT -7
FWIW - I hate hats and will rarely wear one if absolutely necessary. 2- Silk scarf turban for me...
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Post by spence on May 27, 2022 12:39:03 GMT -7
I can't say about prevalent, but I have collected one, and only one, mention of 'fan-tailed' from Rev War times.
The Pennsylvania Gazette November 15, 1775 Annapolis, November 5, 1775. RUN away… N. B. Webster had on a good castor hat fan-tailed, cocked in the military fashion, lined with new white linen,....
Spence
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 27, 2022 14:04:28 GMT -7
Interesting! I wonder if the name “Pennsylvania Fantail” is a reenactorism… and that it was called something else in the period. Or if it was just mentioned as a round hat or somesuch. But mention in a runaway ad seems to indicate that it was a distinguishing characteristic for identification. Im not even sure what to call the examples I posted above. ‘Quaker’ maybe? I finally found a copy of “Rural Pennsylvania Clothing” that I can afford ($40! They’re constantly listed between $150-$400!) I’m looking forward to this book for a number of reasons, but I know there is a section on hats. I’ve been trying to determine if there was a style prevalent among the German-Swiss population in the 1750s. While trying to find images of Pennsylvania hats with a German bent, I came across this shocking image of Moravians disembarking at Philadelphia about 1730. What?! 😳 Plain, but not Simple: Plain Dress and the Church of the Brethren
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Post by brokennock on May 27, 2022 16:04:08 GMT -7
Nice work with the hat blank! Model looks… pensive. Ha. I’m going through images. I’m a hat guy and I’ll spend as much time in the ‘moaning chair’ pondering a hat choice as I’ve spent considering a flintlock. I think a headcover sets a persona’s position, status and character as much as any other piece of costuming. So I ponder. Hunting in December and January will see a knit cap or Canadian. But for the ‘living history’ impression I have a lot to consider. Round hat? With a side cocked? Tricorn? When did the fantail style become prevalent? Here’s one style I’ve considered. View AttachmentView AttachmentBTW… I have a black ‘slouch’ from Clearwater that is a magnificent hat. It hurt to beat the hell out of it to make it appropriate for a late-war Federal impression. Apparently it shrank a bit over the years… or my head got fat. But Clearwater makes a lovely product. I've been wanting the "longhunter" from Clearwater Hats for a long time. Part of the reason for my hat blank project was to see if I need to order their "large oval" option (I think that's what it is called). I would prefer to go with just my cravat about my head but I find a hat a necessary evil for a few reasons. Shading my eyes is one, both to keep the sun out of them when I do step out of the shadows and to try to reduce reflection off my glasses. Keeping rain/snow off those same glasses. Keeping rain/snow out of the back of my collar. I've also been know to take my hat off an use it to collect wild grapes, but that's different.... Those reasons bring me to another period hat issue, or pair of connected issues, I have.... straw hats and the tricorn. We don't hear/read a lot about straw broad brimmed hats of the period, at least not in the reenacting/living history community. Seems like a grand idea for summer. But, I really haven't found much available for straw hats that match our usual period felt hats. Except, the occasional straw tricorn. The tricorn.... Seems to share similar characteristics with another hat known to be, "too hot in the summer, too cold in the winter, and doesn't keep the sun out of your eyes or rain off your face." What use is the brim on a tricorn?
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