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Post by Black Hand on Aug 8, 2022 9:35:47 GMT -7
Being a 2nd generation through my father and first through my mother - does this mean I should not and cannot do this hobby? If we listened to the exclusionary whiners, the answer would be yes. Well - they can roll up their useless opinion and shove it where the sun doesn't shine for all I care. It wouldn't be the first time someone told me I couldn't do something that I did....
The irony is painful - those who won't complaining about those who do.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Aug 8, 2022 10:37:19 GMT -7
"The irony is painful - those who won't complaining about those who do."
Exactly. It isn't about what is being portrayed, but about the type of person doing the interpretation. We see this history as important, and dedicate our own time and money to telling the stories... hopefully in a well-researched and honest way. Honest rather than 'sympathetic'... I've thought on that phrasing today and think that's an important distinction. Not all history will be 'sympathetic' in the eyes of modern political and cultural climate.
What if there was a complete absence of the Native American story at these sites because there aren't enough of the "correct" people to do the portrayals? Is that somehow better?
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Post by Black Hand on Aug 8, 2022 10:49:43 GMT -7
Whitewashing or sugar-coating history is as bad or worse than teaching it in a dishonest manner. Things happened, not all of them good, and lying about it makes it worse - offense of delicate sensibilities be damned....
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Post by brokennock on Aug 8, 2022 17:02:04 GMT -7
None of the "cultural appropriation" Karens seem to cry about some white boy from the suburbs acting like a "gangsta rapper," from East L.A. These people are pretty selective with their moral outrage.
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Post by lenapej on Aug 8, 2022 17:18:30 GMT -7
These are the same people that have been conditioning us to put everyone in a category, instead of thinking of someone as an individual person we are to think of them as part of this group or that, I'm sick of this woke BS and I say let the little snowflakes melt down into a puddle, I will follow my interests, do the research, and portray them as a HUMAN BEING, to the best of my abilities and ignore the mindless rabble.
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Post by hawkeyes on Aug 9, 2022 11:37:36 GMT -7
The BS is everywhere and why I forgo public events anymore. To me the loud mouths never shut up and unfortunately I feel things won't change given the climate.
I've done many events with many good hearted and well put together caucasian fellas with no native heritage in a native role and never had any negative thoughts or feelings. Then there are those who blatantly do more harm than good... Attend a few powwows and you'll see those individuals.
I'm a mutt of mixed heritage, just so happens Native American is one ancestral trait amongst others. Honestly never gave this subject a thought except when someone has done rightful wrong. IMO many people taking up space in this country have lost their flipping so called "privileged" minds and have nothing better to do than worry about crap like this. I say get a job and contribute something productive to society.
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Post by hawkeyes on Aug 9, 2022 16:29:01 GMT -7
This is a sad reality, one to which I knew would approach upon the living history community in due time and we've reached that point.
Sadly many of the constituents progressing this way of thinking know how to ruffle the cages and they surely won't stop, that is until a vast majority of Americans have had enough. There's only so much the pot can hold... I feel we are reaching an overflow quicker by each passing day.
Our society is so morally, ethically and socially out of touch with reality it's a sickness. This is just another example of the generation who can't utilize common sense and reasoning. Rather they live in their own augmented reality were all must conform to some twisted ideological ideal.
While my faith and hope isn't in man, I do hope change is near.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Aug 10, 2022 12:07:39 GMT -7
I'd be curious what everyone might think would be an exceptionally difficult portrayal to do - event or persona - as public interpretation in our period of interest, due to perceived political and cultural preconceptions or current social climate. And how would a group overcome the challenges to present honest and uncomfortable history?
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Post by Black Hand on Aug 10, 2022 16:43:02 GMT -7
Anything having to do with slavery from the slave-owner perspective or atrocities committed by non-whites. Some people would absolutely lose their $..t
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Post by hawkeyes on Aug 10, 2022 17:33:08 GMT -7
Anything having to do with slavery from the slave-owner perspective or atrocities committed by non-whites. Some people would absolutely lose their $..t That would be a death sentence... I do believe their was an African American lady featured at Mount Vernon who actually portrayed a house servant. From what I recall she was exceptional. People now would without question loose what little mind they have left over that.
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ewoaf
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Post by ewoaf on Aug 11, 2022 6:09:26 GMT -7
Anything having to do with slavery from the slave-owner perspective or atrocities committed by non-whites. Some people would absolutely lose their $..t That would be a death sentence... I do believe their was an African American lady featured at Mount Vernon who actually portrayed a house servant. From what I recall she was exceptional. People now would without question loose what little mind they have left over that. I do the former all the time at work as I have, and still do somewhat, many prominent founders who were Virginia slaveholders. I get asked questions about it all the time and have to navigate the dynamic. I actually enjoy those questions, especially when people think they're going to make me uncomfortable, but by sticking to the facts and putting things in perspective I can usually walk away having left them with a lightbulb moment without becoming an apologist. Unfortunately I get the feeling that a lot of those teaching moments don't come about precisely because people are either hesitant or afraid to ask those uncomfortable questions, which is entirely understandable. The aforementioned woman at MV, however, had it much more difficult being that her portrayal constantly revolved around what Washington referred to as that most unfortunate subject of regret. Picturing herself in that role day in and day out eventually took it's toll, so rather than let the perceived resentment build, she unfortunately resigned. Last time I called her she mentioned moving towards her next chapter working on more pleasant pursuits from a freelance perspective. MV sadly lost a few other good interpreters over the last couple years as well. In either situation it does take an element of courage to ask those questions, initiate the dialogue, and answer those questions from the perspective of those involved. My opinion is that those concerns or apprehensions subside the more one has an articulate grasp on the subject matter. While the portrayal of Caroline Branham at MV h gas certainly experienced at least a temporary death, I've never seen anyone lose their shit and I'm still trucking right along continuing to get busier coming out of the pandemic while continuing to build my clientele. I guess time will tell.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Aug 11, 2022 7:21:44 GMT -7
That would be a death sentence... I do believe their was an African American lady featured at Mount Vernon who actually portrayed a house servant. From what I recall she was exceptional. People now would without question loose what little mind they have left over that. I do the former all the time at work as I have, and still do somewhat, many prominent founders who were Virginia slaveholders. I get asked questions about it all the time and have to navigate the dynamic. I actually enjoy those questions, especially when people think they're going to make me uncomfortable, but by sticking to the facts and putting things in perspective I can usually walk away having left them with a lightbulb moment without becoming an apologist. Unfortunately I get the feeling that a lot of those teaching moments don't come about precisely because people are either hesitant or afraid to ask those uncomfortable questions, which is entirely understandable. The aforementioned woman at MV, however, had it much more difficult being that her portrayal constantly revolved around what Washington referred to as that most unfortunate subject of regret. Picturing herself in that role day in and day out eventually took it's toll, so rather than let the perceived resentment build, she unfortunately resigned. Last time I called her she mentioned moving towards her next chapter working on more pleasant pursuits from a freelance perspective. MV sadly lost a few other good interpreters over the last couple years as well. In either situation it does take an element of courage to ask those questions, initiate the dialogue, and answer those questions from the perspective of those involved. My opinion is that those concerns or apprehensions subside the more one has an articulate grasp on the subject matter. While the portrayal of Caroline Branham at MV h gas certainly experienced at least a temporary death, I've never seen anyone lose their shit and I'm still trucking right along continuing to get busier coming out of the pandemic while continuing to build my clientele. I guess time will tell. Great insight. Thanks for taking the time to explain. Having a clear, research-based understanding of the subject in a period context and being able to articulate it well is likely the magic ingredient. In your work, are you presenting in first-person? I feel first-person might be a more difficult scenario for both the interpreter and audience. An interpreter needing to say and then put into context the words "my negro"... and the public hearing someone - live and right in from of them - say "my negro", is likely more emotional for everyone than a third-person interpreter explaining that "so-and-so owned slaves and this is why." The emotional first-person exchange would certainly be more powerful if done well.
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Post by hawkeyes on Aug 11, 2022 7:27:22 GMT -7
That would be a death sentence... I do believe their was an African American lady featured at Mount Vernon who actually portrayed a house servant. From what I recall she was exceptional. People now would without question loose what little mind they have left over that. I do the former all the time at work as I have, and still do somewhat, many prominent founders who were Virginia slaveholders. I get asked questions about it all the time and have to navigate the dynamic. I actually enjoy those questions, especially when people think they're going to make me uncomfortable, but by sticking to the facts and putting things in perspective I can usually walk away having left them with a lightbulb moment without becoming an apologist. Unfortunately I get the feeling that a lot of those teaching moments don't come about precisely because people are either hesitant or afraid to ask those uncomfortable questions, which is entirely understandable. The aforementioned woman at MV, however, had it much more difficult being that her portrayal constantly revolved around what Washington referred to as that most unfortunate subject of regret. Picturing herself in that role day in and day out eventually took it's toll, so rather than let the perceived resentment build, she unfortunately resigned. Last time I called her she mentioned moving towards her next chapter working on more pleasant pursuits from a freelance perspective. MV sadly lost a few other good interpreters over the last couple years as well. In either situation it does take an element of courage to ask those questions, initiate the dialogue, and answer those questions from the perspective of those involved. My opinion is that those concerns or apprehensions subside the more one has an articulate grasp on the subject matter. While the portrayal of Caroline Branham at MV h gas certainly experienced at least a temporary death, I've never seen anyone lose their shit and I'm still trucking right along continuing to get busier coming out of the pandemic while continuing to build my clientele. I guess time will tell. Good to know that from a professional perspective there's still decency by many. Truly it seems so much of this negativity comes from the lack of a solid educational understanding from the public. Good on you for doing what you do in maintaining that level headed educational mindset. Me personally I can't handle the public anymore, so I'm truly sincere when I say we'll done! Hopefully the woman above settles into a roll she enjoys and becomes successful, best wishes to her as it certainly would take courage doing what she's done. I remember Mount Vernon being the highlight of my school trip long ago. Sad to hear it's fallen short of the mark.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Aug 11, 2022 7:30:53 GMT -7
Anything having to do with slavery from the slave-owner perspective or atrocities committed by non-whites. Some people would absolutely lose their $..t I'm with ya. My experience within ACW living history is that the slavery subject was completely ignored by most reenactors portraying Southern military men. The Lost Cause rhetoric prevailed, which I think was actually more frustrating to the public than acknowledging slavery's place in the history. In this case, it was a lack of fortitude on the part of many reenactors to present an accurate portrayal rather than 'public outrage'. Realizing that a lot of the board isn't involved in public interpretation, what are some strategies for navigating these subjects? How do we marry 'modern sensibilities' with honest, unvarnished history?
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Post by Black Hand on Aug 11, 2022 7:48:42 GMT -7
How do we marry 'modern sensibilities' with honest, unvarnished history? I don't even try. What I might change is the language/words I use. I usually preface my guest lectures (as needed) by saying that history isn't always pretty or pleasant but refuse to sugar-coat or censor history. If you want cleansed history, get an SJW to talk. If you want actual history, find someone else. Political correctness was once described as ...trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. At best, a useless and futile endeavor.
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