RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Aug 7, 2022 16:44:50 GMT -7
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Post by Black Hand on Aug 7, 2022 17:30:35 GMT -7
Busy-bodies need to mind their own business. I can understand if the impression was wrong, but the objection appeared to be they didn't have the "right" blood. That's just going a little too far....
I got this same BS from a pasty white guy who accused me of stealing the native culture because I was making stick bows.
Would I be discriminated against because I'm a pasty white guy with a braid? I've taken time to read, study and learn things that many natives have no interest in learning. Someone needs to pass on the information...
Sorry - this behavior gets under my skin.
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Joe
City-dweller
Posts: 170
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Post by Joe on Aug 7, 2022 20:53:05 GMT -7
There were "white" natives, half breeds and more. Got to love stereotypes.
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Post by paranger on Aug 8, 2022 5:03:30 GMT -7
I read this with much consternation - and a sense of foreboding. Like Bushy Run, we at Ft. Loudoun are a local volunteer led and run operation, but PHMC technically still owns the land - they just ceded all financial and custodial responsibility for it, like every other historic site in PA. Now it appears that they want the ability to reach in and micromanage historical interpretation when it suits them?
The Cherokee are a big part of Loudoun's story - particularly during the Forbes campaign. Henry Bouquet even hosted a major council there in June 1758. I spent literally years researching my Cherokee impression specifically to do interpretation in this context. BTW, I am partially of Cherokee descent (got the sub-lingual bony ridges to prove it). BUT, I also don't think that should matter. Show me a a good card-carrying reservation born Cherokee intetpreter who wants to teach, and I am ready to learn and improve. None have surfaced yet...
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Aug 8, 2022 5:53:03 GMT -7
I don't have a well defined sense of my thoughts on non-Native interpreters portraying Natives. My concern is with the bureaucracy. PHMC received a single, out-of-state concern regarding interpretation and the response was to ask Brushy Run to cancel the event. Now, I've no firsthand knowledge of this site's interpretation standards, but they seem to have their shit together and have been doing this for decades. This reactionary response to a single 'complaint' is worrisome and has the potential to significantly inhibit valuable interpretation. I wonder if Fort Ti has dealt with similar...
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Post by Rodman on Aug 8, 2022 6:17:34 GMT -7
This is just absolutely ridiculous. So, history can not be taught unless your are a blood relation to the subject at hand? So, I guess you have to be German to teach German, French to teach French... What the heck. I am so disappointed in people now days. I could go on, but to do so would turn in to a rant that basically amounts to me preaching to the choir. Unreal.
RM
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Post by paranger on Aug 8, 2022 6:27:03 GMT -7
I see where you are going, Rodman, and I concur. Where, then, does one draw the line if honest, respectful, research-based interpretation is not enough?
We used to have an Irish Catholic fella in my unit - a unit portraying people who would have been 100% Ulster Scots Presbyterians (and historically "anti-papist"). Was that cultural appropriation on his part? I don't believe so, as long as he didn't try to rewrite the history - and I say this as an Ulster Scots Presbyterian relative of an original member of the unit.
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ewoaf
City-dweller
Posts: 203
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Post by ewoaf on Aug 8, 2022 6:58:58 GMT -7
Don't forget Martin's station has had their battle cancelled for exactly the same reason. There's nothing more racist than judging ones aptitude toward living history based on race alone. I'm pretty sure from whom these complaints are coming. It seems to be consistently from one person who has a moderate social media presence.
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Post by paranger on Aug 8, 2022 7:20:10 GMT -7
Don't forget Martin's station has had their battle cancelled for exactly the same reason. There's nothing more racist than judging ones aptitude toward living history based on race alone. I'm pretty sure from whom these complaints are coming. It seems to be consistently from one person who has a moderate social media presence. Probably the best former Southeastern Native interpreter out there - Jason Melius - has taken a state funded job I believe with the Martin's Station site, and has since repudiated the notion of non-native persons doing native interp. Could it be coincidence that his epiphany coincided with his change in employment? Color me skeptical...
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Post by Rodman on Aug 8, 2022 7:48:31 GMT -7
What's the old saying? "Imitation is the most sincere form of Flattery?" or something like that. These people that go to all the trouble to represent an honest interpretation are honoring their (Native Peoples) way of life!!! you would think they could see that. I think those that are against things of this nature are simply exercising some misguided sense of power to cancel such things as this. Its likely because they don't even know how to represent their own people. Most likely they have lost the knowledge of the old ways and since they can't appropriately address the issue, then be damned if a whitey/non native is going too!!!
JMHO,
RM
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ewoaf
City-dweller
Posts: 203
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Post by ewoaf on Aug 8, 2022 8:05:59 GMT -7
Don't forget Martin's station has had their battle cancelled for exactly the same reason. There's nothing more racist than judging ones aptitude toward living history based on race alone. I'm pretty sure from whom these complaints are coming. It seems to be consistently from one person who has a moderate social media presence. Probably the best former Southeastern Native interpreter out there - Jason Melius - has taken a state funded job I believe with the Martin's Station site, and has since repudiated the notion of non-native persons doing native interp. Could it be coincidence that his epiphany coincided with his change in employment? Color me skeptical... You're thinking of Ft Dobbs, who's policy changes coincided with his. Martin's Station event is following Virginia state policy now allowing vociferous opponents of non-Native interpretation to now fill that void.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Aug 8, 2022 8:21:04 GMT -7
We're likely on the same page with the sort of things we'd rant about in this situation, and we're making the assumption that the Native impressions at Brushy Run are well done and sympathetic to the history. I'd say that at BR, they likely are. But what if they aren't?
I'm sure we've all encountered poorly researched, poorly done, unsympathetic interpretations of all types. I've never been, but acquaintances who've done the Rendezvous and Pow-Wow thing have told me about some truly horrid and borderline offensive Indian 'impressions' out there. If that's a person's experience and has no exposure to well researched and sympathetic impressions, I could see a quick and angry email being sent to an event's organizers.
Let's face it... some impressions are difficult to do well. Fat white guy in a uniform with a musket... fairly easy and generic. Doing a Native American during the colonial period... very hard. Doing a Native impression and being able to navigate the cultural and political nuances of the 1750s and current times?... exceptionally difficult.
And... some impressions take outright courage. Courage in the best of times, but in the often adversarial political and cultural climate these days, some important history would be near impossible to do through interpretation. Could any of us walk amongst the public as a Shawanese with a white woman's scalp on a stick? Could you articulate the period moral justification of a member of the Paxton Boys or a portray a participant in the Gnadenhutten massacre? Could you portray a slave owner?
Living history is changing, and somewhat for the better. But it's still mainly the domain of white men attempting to do good history. If the story of an underrepresented segment is to be told at all, it's likely that people will need to cross cultural and racial barriers to to tell those stories. Including well-researched, well-'performed' impressions of colonial Natives done by non-Natives.
Again... whomever lodged the complaint likely isn't a student of history. They likely don't have first hand knowledge of the interpretation of natives done at Brushy Run. This is most likely an emotional reaction to perceived cultural appropriation... whether justified or not. PHMC had a PC reaction and basically passed the buck to Brushy Run. Shame on them. But good on BR for continuing forward and having a well done response to the 'controversy'.
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Post by Black Hand on Aug 8, 2022 8:41:17 GMT -7
Unfortunately, the "court of public opinion" holds much sway in the USA today. The truth matters very little...and was brought into sharp focus during the pandemic.
I'm also confused by people being offended for others who were not offended - this twice-removed offense is frankly ridiculous.
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Post by paranger on Aug 8, 2022 8:52:19 GMT -7
Probably the best former Southeastern Native interpreter out there - Jason Melius - has taken a state funded job I believe with the Martin's Station site, and has since repudiated the notion of non-native persons doing native interp. Could it be coincidence that his epiphany coincided with his change in employment? Color me skeptical... You're thinking of Ft Dobbs, who's policy changes coincided with his. Martin's Station event is following Virginia state policy now allowing vociferous opponents of non-Native interpretation to now fill that void. Quite right, EWOAF. I stand corrected, thank you.
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Post by brokennock on Aug 8, 2022 9:28:48 GMT -7
With my dad's half of my bloodline being from Sicily, only 3 generations ago (if I count right), does that mean I can't represent your average Colonial New Englander in the living history realm?
I am disappointed in all this. I am disappointed not just in the "Karens," who start this nonsense, I'm disappointed in those who encourage it by giving credence to it through appeasement.
I would like to say more, but, I know what I say and the people I blame for this will bother and possibly ostracize some people here. This problem can not be corrected or dealt with because an honest, and sometimes maybe painful or unattractive conversation can't be had about the origins of these things.
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