18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches

artificer
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18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 20, 2022 12:45:44 GMT -7 brokennock, Sicilianhunter, and 3 more like this

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Post by artificer on May 20, 2022 12:45:44 GMT -7

The idea of this thread is to go over known originals to learn more from them. These are the ones I know about and I would very much like to know of others that are not listed here. Hope the links work correctly, but if not, I’ll be back to try to fix them later.

1. Shot Pouch 18th century, private collection

html.scribdassets.com/1dtrp5yatc69s7in/images/23-f65deb1de1.jpg

Front and back views

2.bp.blogspot.com/-HHi4TlLmfsU/UOgkKNaOc8I/AAAAAAAA91o/DpVFJOSoLW8/s1600/151-3f7d4e9c80.jpg

Recreation of above

html.scribdassets.com/1dtrp5yatc69s7in/images/24-f6cd8d57e0.jpg

2. Lemual Lyman Ball Bag/Ball Pouch, Date 1755

i.pinimg.com/originals/e1/8a/6d/e18a6de0f751752b515a05b3c12d6aff.jpg

3. Hunting Bag, mid to late 18th century (Featured in “Of Sorts for Provincials” by Jim Mullens on page 43 and in the Wallace Gusler collection)

“Shot Pouch. Date Unknown. Wallace Gusler collection.”

I THINK this is also known as the Virginia Pouch?

html.scribdassets.com/1dtrp5yatc69s7in/images/33-bdc779e11e.png

Reproduction of the “Virginia Pouch” by Mark Elliot.

i.pinimg.com/originals/33/c7/5b/33c75bf6ee6972482af7babfc9579153.jpg

4. Hunting Bag, mid to late 18th century (Featured in “Of Sorts for Provincials” by Jim Mullens on page 115

American “hair pouch.” Eight hair pouches were returned to stores by Dagworthy’s Company in 1762.

This is the one tanned with the hair on it.

html.scribdassets.com/1dtrp5yatc69s7in/images/34-8d9cb9e3b1.jpg

5. Hunting Bag, mid to late 18th century (Featured in “Of Sorts for Provincials” by Jim Mullens on page 44)

“Shot Pouch, c. 1750-1850. Colonial Williamsburg collection.”

html.scribdassets.com/1dtrp5yatc69s7in/images/35-dbfea851e5.jpg

6. Hunting Bags (2) Late 18th – Early 19th Century (Estate of Tom Winuck)

i.pinimg.com/originals/ff/ae/1c/ffae1cd248e815672df6cd4b9e381bde.jpg

Most all of these came from and in the order listed above from the “18th century Material Culture” website

www.scribd.com/document/248435837/Sports-Sportsmen-Hunting-Part-II

Gus

Last Edit: May 21, 2022 5:49:40 GMT -7 by artificer

brokennock
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18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 20, 2022 17:09:13 GMT -7 via mobile Sicilianhunter, paranger, and 2 more like this

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Post by brokennock on May 20, 2022 17:09:13 GMT -7

I've made recreations of the Lyman belt pouch and the Wallace Gussler pouch attributed to Virginia origin. I also used that Virginia bag's basic design, especially the use of a button for attaching and adjusting the strap, as a basis for a few other bags that have more pockets or dividers.

I do tend to like small bags, but often box myself in with too small a bag for my needs.

I could probably make the Lyman work for a shot pouch with a few of my pre-made shot cup/cartridges and a bit of wadding, maybe for a quick squirrel or other small game hunt, especially if I had and was on my own property. Same with a small bore rifle for the same purposes. All the "what if" stuff would need to be in another pouch/bag or, if hunting near home on one's property, left home.
Otherwise I find it too small, but that's just me personally.

I think the Gussler bag is great for a rifleman, again, some stuff that a lot of folks think should be in the shot pouch would be in another bag or pouch. But for just some balls, patching, and maybe a container of lube, it's about perfect. The size of the user's hands may make a difference here too.

RyanAK
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18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 20, 2022 19:33:44 GMT -7 brokennock and Sicilianhunter like this

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Post by RyanAK on May 20, 2022 19:33:44 GMT -7

Good start! I like thinking about pouches and carrying the supplies needed to keep our arms running.

I’ll likely make a belt pouch soon, just to have one around. There seems to be even fewer surviving examples of these than slung pouches. It seems like your number 1 could be formed of rigid leather? I wish we had a quartering view of it to see the depth front-to-back.

I wonder, too, if there’s precedent for civilian use of a cartouche box. Something like a 9-round box on the belly with cartridges like ‘nock described for a squirrel or bird hunt would be handy. Also for rangering or a scout when the need arises. Probably unlikely in Pennsylvania but maybe in the provinces with milita laws? That seems like a straightforward project as well.

I’ll go through my files, but there are so few of these surviving, I’m not likely to be able to add any additional images.

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brokennock
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18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 21, 2022 8:20:33 GMT -7 via mobile

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Post by brokennock on May 21, 2022 8:20:33 GMT -7

May 20, 2022 19:33:44 GMT -7 RyanAK said:

....I’ll likely make a belt pouch soon, just to have one around. There seems to be even fewer surviving examples of these than slung pouches. ....

It is interesting that we seem to have more extant shoulder slung pouches, though still very few, than belt pouches. It seems to me there are far more period paintings amd drawings showing sportsmen with belt pouches than shoulder pouches.
Maybe this is due to greater interest now in shoulder pouches, so the extant ones get shown more, and paintings of genteel sportsman in the period are more common than of backwoods frontiersmen?

brokennock
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18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 21, 2022 8:23:59 GMT -7 via mobile Sicilianhunter and paranger like this

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Post by brokennock on May 21, 2022 8:23:59 GMT -7

May 20, 2022 19:33:44 GMT -7 RyanAK said:

..... It seems like your number 1 could be formed of rigid leather? ....

Probably not.
I don't remember if I posted my Lyman pouch build on this forum or not. It is definitely on the other forum. The pouch gets wet molded and holds that shape very well once dry. I used very thin leather that was pre-dyed amd finished. I deglazed it, made and wet molded the pouch, then finished it with neatsfoot oil and beeswax, it still retains that shape and volume.

Last Edit: May 21, 2022 8:35:08 GMT -7 by brokennock

paranger
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18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 21, 2022 8:26:36 GMT -7 via mobile Sicilianhunter likes this

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Post by paranger on May 21, 2022 8:26:36 GMT -7

May 21, 2022 8:23:59 GMT -7 brokennock said:

May 20, 2022 19:33:44 GMT -7 RyanAK said:

..... It seems like your number 1 could be formed of rigid leather? ....

Probably not.
I don't remember if I posted my Lyman pouch build on this forum or not. It is definitely on the other forum. The pouch gets wet molded and holds that shape very well once dry. I used very thin leather that was pre-dyed amd finished. I declared it, made and wet molded the pouch, then finished it with neatsfoot oil and beeswax, it still retains that shape and volume.

I think I used 4-6oz veg tan for both the Lyman pouches I made based on my best guess as to the original. Seemed about right.

brokennock Scout Posts: 2,286	18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 21, 2022 8:34:02 GMT -7 via mobile Sicilianhunter, paranger, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by brokennock on May 21, 2022 8:34:02 GMT -7 Before wet molding During wet molding, the green plastic bag is full of birdshot. It maintains that shape to this day.
	Last Edit: May 21, 2022 8:35:58 GMT -7 by brokennock

RyanAK
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18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 21, 2022 8:44:42 GMT -7 Sicilianhunter and paranger like this

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Post by RyanAK on May 21, 2022 8:44:42 GMT -7

Looks great! We’re on the same page. Wet-formed is what I meant by rigid. The recreated pouch in Gus’s original post looks soft and flat-ish, while the original looks to have some structure. Yours really looks good.

And I happen to have some 6oz veg tan. 😎

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18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 21, 2022 10:09:00 GMT -7 Sicilianhunter and artificer like this

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Post by RyanAK on May 21, 2022 10:09:00 GMT -7

The belt pouch looks like it would be a good match for shooting shot. Powder horn, shot flask on a sling, and belt pouch with card, wadding, odds and ends.

Strive not just for knowledge, but understanding.

spence Hunter Posts: 1,638	18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 21, 2022 10:39:52 GMT -7 brokennock, Sicilianhunter, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by spence on May 21, 2022 10:39:52 GMT -7 There are other pouches/bags from the Tom Wnuck estate. Spence
	Into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.

spence Hunter Posts: 1,638	18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 21, 2022 10:46:49 GMT -7 Sicilianhunter, paranger, and 2 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by spence on May 21, 2022 10:46:49 GMT -7 Some more from Wnuck, including a Queen's Rangers pouch. second down. Spence
	Last Edit: May 21, 2022 10:50:50 GMT -7 by spence Into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.

RyanAK City-dweller Once scalped… Posts: 979	18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 21, 2022 10:49:36 GMT -7 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by RyanAK on May 21, 2022 10:49:36 GMT -7 Oh! Spence, those are new ones to me! Time to study. Deeply.
	Strive not just for knowledge, but understanding.

paranger Moderator Posts: 1,200 Member is Online	18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 21, 2022 10:53:24 GMT -7 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by paranger on May 21, 2022 10:53:24 GMT -7 New to me as well - thanks, Spence. I find the Queens' Rangers pouch fascinating: do atypical.

RyanAK City-dweller Once scalped… Posts: 979	18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 21, 2022 11:01:54 GMT -7 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by RyanAK on May 21, 2022 11:01:54 GMT -7 Completely. That QR bag is fascinating. And the images are all great. Lots of details visible, including stitching. Any info to go with them?
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spence
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18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches May 21, 2022 11:22:37 GMT -7 artificer likes this

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Post by spence on May 21, 2022 11:22:37 GMT -7

May 21, 2022 11:01:54 GMT -7 RyanAK said:

Any info to go with them?

Sorry, none. The Wnuck auction site had pictures of all the items, no background info, only labels. It's a fascinating display. Here's a link to the site.

www.cottoneauctions.com/oldsite/old/TomWnuck/wnuck-accoutrements&accessories-page3.htm

Spence

Into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.

18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches

Post by artificer on May 20, 2022 12:45:44 GMT -7

Post by brokennock on May 20, 2022 17:09:13 GMT -7

Post by RyanAK on May 20, 2022 19:33:44 GMT -7

Post by brokennock on May 21, 2022 8:20:33 GMT -7

Post by brokennock on May 21, 2022 8:23:59 GMT -7

Post by paranger on May 21, 2022 8:26:36 GMT -7

Post by brokennock on May 21, 2022 8:34:02 GMT -7

Post by RyanAK on May 21, 2022 8:44:42 GMT -7

Post by RyanAK on May 21, 2022 10:09:00 GMT -7

Post by spence on May 21, 2022 10:39:52 GMT -7

Post by spence on May 21, 2022 10:46:49 GMT -7

Post by RyanAK on May 21, 2022 10:49:36 GMT -7

Post by paranger on May 21, 2022 10:53:24 GMT -7

Post by RyanAK on May 21, 2022 11:01:54 GMT -7

Post by spence on May 21, 2022 11:22:37 GMT -7