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Post by paranger on Jun 3, 2022 8:12:35 GMT -7
Wonderful, Spence! That would be a swell addition to a reproduction pouch! Maybe when I make one I’ll blast it and make an emergency field repair.  Remember that the original Lemuel Lyman pouch also stopped a ball, which is the reason his descendants gave for his preserving it. |
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 4, 2022 9:41:38 GMT -7
It would take a dedicated living historian to shoot up a nice piece of kit to give a material object a neat backstory. Truly.
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Post by artificer on Jun 4, 2022 10:19:34 GMT -7
It would take a dedicated living historian to shoot up a nice piece of kit to give a material object a neat backstory. Truly. OMG, I could see serious, if not heated discussions on how they determined the ball size, powder charge, range and angle at which the repro Lyman pouch was shot. LOL!! I have a hard enough time getting across to some people that most period folks at any time in their lives would have a mixture of worn out, or worn, or old, or scuffed or brand new gear all at once. Grin. Gus |
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 979
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Post by RyanAK on Jun 4, 2022 10:33:58 GMT -7
Absolutely. Gear in various stages of ‘decomposition’ is highly appropriate, even with military units on campaign. For the ACW Bentonville event I was part of all those years ago, the documented material culture of the battalion was that they were basically shoeless, clothed in shredded Federal rags, but had acquired captured new Confederate haversacks. We had to wear shoes for safety, and few among the 200 men could bring themselves to shred good wool uniforms… though two guys did. Most did add a newish rebel haversack to their kit. It looked ridiculous, but was highly authentic. Gus, put on this fancy shot pouch I made and stand next to that tree. No, the other side. Good. Now… close your eyes. It’s ok. Trust me. Just stand very still and ignore the tug after the boom. |
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Post by artificer on Jun 4, 2022 10:48:20 GMT -7
Absolutely. Gear in various stages of ‘decomposition’ is highly appropriate, even with military units on campaign. For the ACW Bentonville event I was part of all those years ago, the documented material culture of the battalion was that they were basically shoeless, clothed in shredded Federal rags, but had acquired captured new Confederate haversacks. We had to wear shoes for safety, and few among the 200 men could bring themselves to shred good wool uniforms… though two guys did. Most did add a newish rebel haversack to their kit. It looked ridiculous, but was highly authentic. Gus, put on this fancy shot pouch I made and stand next to that tree. No, the other side. Good. Now… close your eyes. It’s ok. Trust me. Just stand very still and ignore the tug after the boom.  Before or after you sell me the Penny Bridge in Richmond? ROTFLMAO!!!!!! Gus |
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Post by spence on Jun 4, 2022 10:49:30 GMT -7
It would take a dedicated living historian to shoot up a nice piece of kit to give a material object a neat backstory. Truly. I frequently see posts which make me wonder, "What's it all about, Alfie?" This post reminds me of that question, because I know there are people in the hobby who would actually do that. It has always seemed to me that having that certain look is the main interest of most re-enactors. My interest is in the experience of the old boys, not the minute detail of their dress, gear, etc.. so I have trouble identifying with that approach. It makes me wonder who they are doing the re-enacting for. If a person is involved in first-person portrayal at a historic site catering to the public, for instance, it would seem appropriate, and I could understand, but what if they are just weekend warriors or hunters, solo or with a small private group...how does that work then? Spence |
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Post by artificer on Jun 4, 2022 11:36:07 GMT -7
It would take a dedicated living historian to shoot up a nice piece of kit to give a material object a neat backstory. Truly. I frequently see posts which make me wonder, "What's it all about, Alfie?" This post reminds me of that question, because I know there are people in the hobby who would actually do that. It has always seemed to me that having that certain look is the main interest of most re-enactors. My interest is in the experience of the old boys, not the minute detail of their dress, gear, etc.. so I have trouble identifying with that approach. It makes me wonder who they are doing the re-enacting for. If a person is involved in first-person portrayal at a historic site catering to the public, for instance, it would seem appropriate, and I could understand, but what if they are just weekend warriors or hunters, solo or with a small private group...how does that work then? Spence In the late 1970's, there was a small number of us in our ML Shooting Club, The Kekionga Long Rifles, more or less centered in Fort Wayne, IN and who were interested in doing living history or at least attempting to be more authentic in our impressions. Our time period was anywhere up to and including the Summer of 1816, because that was the time period portrayed at the historically recreated full size log fort, Historic Fort Wayne. Most of we original members were shooters first, though we did not require that to join the group. What we did require was that within the first nine months, a member had to stand in front of our group in their period dress and gear and explain their impression. One of what I consider to be the most memorable impressions explained, wasn't a shooter, didn't have a gun and was a Lady. She portrayed the wife of one of the soldiers at Historic Fort Wayne who was a paid laundress and cook at the original fort and an unofficial nurse. Now she was mentioned a LOT in the original documents and papers and diaries of the Fort. This Lady brought her washing tub and some repro cooking kettles, pans and gear, including the period repro knife made for her, which was her constant companion both in the original documents and in her portrayal. She gave an extremely interesting and fact filled talk on the woman she portrayed and that woman was a force to be reckoned with, by all accounts. She was surprised and pleased we gave her a standing ovation when she finished her talk and welcomed her as a permanent member. Gus |
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Post by artificer on Jun 19, 2022 0:37:28 GMT -7
I know I've gone back over a dozen times to look at the over the shoulder strap (roller) buckle on that pouch, as it has perplexed me so much. I'm pretty sure it is a girth strap buckle, but why is it silver color in the painting? A "bright" or polished steel buckle makes no sense at all as a girth buckle and even if it had originally would have been japanned black and then polished for the strap, it would need an inordinate amount of attention by Sir Edward's servants to keep it from rusting. OK, so could it have been made of silver? Well, Sir Edward certainly could have afforded silver furniture on horse equipment, but it makes no sense this would have been silver, because it would not normally be seen even when he wasn't riding. I've been trying to do more research on 18th century Iron and Steel Buckles and from that, I have finally come up with what seems to me to be a reasonable explanation of the silver colored strap buckle. It most likely is a Tinned Steel Buckle (as in Hot Dipped Tin), which would stand up very well to rust either on horse gear or when used for a pouch strap. If my theory is correct, this is a very early example of a Tinned Buckle. Gus |
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Post by brokennock on Jun 19, 2022 3:44:54 GMT -7
I know I've gone back over a dozen times to look at the over the shoulder strap (roller) buckle on that pouch, as it has perplexed me so much. I'm pretty sure it is a girth strap buckle, but why is it silver color in the painting? A "bright" or polished steel buckle makes no sense at all as a girth buckle and even if it had originally would have been japanned black and then polished for the strap, it would need an inordinate amount of attention by Sir Edward's servants to keep it from rusting. OK, so could it have been made of silver? Well, Sir Edward certainly could have afforded silver furniture on horse equipment, but it makes no sense this would have been silver, because it would not normally be seen even when he wasn't riding. I've been trying to do more research on 18th century Iron and Steel Buckles and from that, I have finally come up with what seems to me to be a reasonable explanation of the silver colored strap buckle. It most likely is a Tinned Steel Buckle (as in Hot Dipped Tin), which would stand up very well to rust either on horse gear or when used for a pouch strap. If my theory is correct, this is a very early example of a Tinned Buckle. Gus Okay, so essentially a plated buckle (I could be wrong but I've always considered something "tinned" as the same as our "plated" objects). If so, would plating/tinning stand up to the wear and strain of a buckle, especially one used in harnessing a horse? Are we all reading too much into this? Looking so hard for things that our minds are creating then? |
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Post by paranger on Jun 19, 2022 4:47:11 GMT -7
I know I've gone back over a dozen times to look at the over the shoulder strap (roller) buckle on that pouch, as it has perplexed me so much. I'm pretty sure it is a girth strap buckle, but why is it silver color in the painting? A "bright" or polished steel buckle makes no sense at all as a girth buckle and even if it had originally would have been japanned black and then polished for the strap, it would need an inordinate amount of attention by Sir Edward's servants to keep it from rusting. OK, so could it have been made of silver? Well, Sir Edward certainly could have afforded silver furniture on horse equipment, but it makes no sense this would have been silver, because it would not normally be seen even when he wasn't riding. I've been trying to do more research on 18th century Iron and Steel Buckles and from that, I have finally come up with what seems to me to be a reasonable explanation of the silver colored strap buckle. It most likely is a Tinned Steel Buckle (as in Hot Dipped Tin), which would stand up very well to rust either on horse gear or when used for a pouch strap. If my theory is correct, this is a very early example of a Tinned Buckle. Gus Okay, so essentially a plated buckle (I could be wrong but I've always considered something "tinned" as the same as our "plated" objects). If so, would plating/tinning stand up to the wear and strain of a buckle, especially one used in harnessing a horse? Are we all reading too much into this? Looking so hard for things that our minds are creating then? Some 18th c. cavalry spurs were made of tinned iron as well, so it makes sense to me if it were made by a harness maker or sadler This was the same conclusion I came to when I first discovered the bag. |
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Post by artificer on Jun 19, 2022 4:51:08 GMT -7
There is strain mainly on the roller of a girth strap roller buckle when tightened down and later as the horse is ridden, though of course some strain on the solid part of the buckle under the roller. However, there is not much of a moving strain that would cause the plating to be worn quickly away because of the roller, even if the plating was tin. Also, if they had found the tin plating did not hold up, they wouldn't have done it so often in the period on buckles. The tin plating would surely have stood up better than the normal black japanning done on steel buckles. That's my opinion.
Gus
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