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Post by brokennock on Aug 3, 2022 20:48:45 GMT -7
I came upon this image while looking around for how collars were attached to frock coats. I had read several places that seams on coats were not felled to close up the raw edges. This, I assumed, was in regards to wool broad cloth. But then there was mention of overcasting the seam allowance in, I think, Tidings. So apparently it was this was in regards even on fabrics like linen that will unravel. Still, this made sense to my reasoning in a lined coat where the seams of the body would be completely enclosed. Then this turned up. View AttachmentWhat a marvelous image for a ‘means and methods’ nerd like me! This is a linen coat c.1780 with provenance to Connecticut and Rhode Island. There’s no evidence that a lining ever existed, and you can see the neat overcasting of the raw edges of the seam allowances. I'm confused, mostly due to my ignorance of tailoring, but the pic and your wording leads me to think that the coat pictured is inside out. Is that correct?
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RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on Aug 3, 2022 20:55:03 GMT -7
Oh, man! Sorry, friend. It IS inside out! I’ve often wondered how various extant garments were put together and wished for a view of some inside detail. Like the detail we got to see with the Meigs hat. So to see the interior of an artifact unlined linen coat is pretty cool for a nerd like me. Almost all of the extant examples on the interwebs don’t offer this sort of detail.
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Post by brokennock on Aug 4, 2022 0:36:29 GMT -7
Oh, man! Sorry, friend. It IS inside out! I’ve often wondered how various extant garments were put together and wished for a view of some inside detail. Like the detail we got to see with the Meigs hat. So to see the interior of an artifact unlined linen coat is pretty cool for a nerd like me. Almost all of the extant examples on the interwebs don’t offer this sort of detail. Okay, that's what I thought but wasn't sure. I didn't know if the seams being prominent and frazzled and on the outside was the unique feature you were referring to.. or of the garment was inside out to display the stitching of the seams.
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RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on Aug 4, 2022 10:08:49 GMT -7
Here’s the exterior.
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RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on Apr 6, 2023 6:11:53 GMT -7
This project has new life. I’m modifying my Cobb Creek ‘hunting frock’ to be more correct for a 1750s casual or ‘country’ frock coat. First up was to upgrade the buttons. I bought button molds and covered all 28! with the same heavy linen as the coat. This was easy, but time consuming. I think I have over three hours into making these. I also upgraded the interfacing with a piece of linen buckram to give the button line some better structure. Super easy. The result is a significant change in the character of the coat. Now I could stop here, but I can’t seem to let well enough alone. And this has made for a good ‘desk project’ between the chaos of my soul-crushing work.
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RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on Apr 6, 2023 6:16:54 GMT -7
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RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on Apr 6, 2023 6:22:40 GMT -7
I’m now working 28 buttonholes. This is taking some effort to get correct. The first couple will need redone, but by number 6 I started to figure things out. It takes a LOT of practice to reach the level of craftsmanship on what a good 18th century buttonhole actually looked like. The nylon thread that was used and then ironed (read: melted) is making it more challenging than if I had a clean cut and raw hole in the fabric.
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Post by brokennock on Apr 8, 2023 14:22:43 GMT -7
Good stuff Ryan. Way to make me feel bad about the two coats I have from Kathy.
Question. Why can't the existing buttons just be covered with fabric?
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RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on Apr 8, 2023 17:55:45 GMT -7
Oh! Don’t feel bad! They’re wonderful garments, truly. I just… I have problems, k? Covering the metal buttons would work fine, but as far as I can tell, wasn’t done. Plus I wanted to increase the size a bit. This is a damn commitment though. The buttonholes are taking forever because I’m working around, over and through the nylon buttonhole thread that was sorta melted into the fabric. If I was to start again, I’d likely do the interfacing, cover the 11 buttons on the chest and 6 on the sleeves, work the chest buttonholes and be done. Maybe the collar. As it is, I’m deep into it and there’s no stopping now. Wait until you see what I’m going to do with a $25 secondhand Townsend sleeved waistcoat that’s about 4 sizes too big…
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Post by brokennock on Apr 9, 2023 4:30:33 GMT -7
Looking at what Ryan is doing and thinking about the time involved (3 hours just to cover the button cores) and special materials reveals part of why quality historical clothing can cost so much. Just covering those buttons adds almost $50 in labor,,,, and that's at minimum wage.
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RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on Apr 9, 2023 9:18:12 GMT -7
Obviously speed comes with practice, but what I’m finding out (and what I discovered with my hand sewn farmer frock…) is that it’s a ton of work to do this and shortcuts don’t really exist. Done in period fashion, the garments were extremely sturdy and would last.
On this Cobb Creek frock, a simple path for a working class garment would be:
Interfacing (I consider this a must, and it’s easy) Collar (optional, but also easy) Remove buttons from pockets and skirts (very many period frocks had none) Swap to “better” buttons (horn ‘pin back’ or maybe rimmed and domed brass) on chest and sleeves Work the chest buttonholes only in a simple manner
That’s likely 4-ish hours of effort and maybe $25 in material… mostly all of it in the buttons.
But yeah… highly PC garments are going to be spendy.
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Post by Black Hand on Apr 9, 2023 18:01:56 GMT -7
I'd rip out the white thread serging and do a proper lining install (or not, but the white serging is the main issue). Maybe some interfacing where the buttons and buttonholes go.
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RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on Apr 10, 2023 7:39:08 GMT -7
Pocket topstitched and buttons mounted. Long way to go, but it’s starting to look like something.
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Post by Black Hand on Apr 10, 2023 9:38:20 GMT -7
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Post by brokennock on Apr 10, 2023 16:41:15 GMT -7
You might need to change your persona to traveling tailor.
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