RyanAK
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Post by RyanAK on May 17, 2022 12:56:31 GMT -7
As to how old leather canteens might be... BLACKJACKS AND LEATHER BOTTLELS, by Oliver Baker...the author says, "the doggeral is early, maybe 16th or 17th century." page 36 "Showing how glasses and pots are laid aside, And Flaggons and Noggins they cannot abide, And let all wives do what they can, 'Tis for the praise and use of a Man, And this you may very well be sure, The leather Bottel will longest endure: And I wish in Heaven his soul may dwell that first devised the Leather Bottel." page 44 "Thus you may hear of a Leather Bottel, when as it is filled with good liquor well, Though the substance of it be but small, yet the name of a thing is all. Ther's never a Lord, Earl, or Knight, but in a Bottel doth take delight: For when he is hunting of the Deer, he often doth wish for a Bottell of Beer: Likewise the man that works at the Wood, a Bottel of Beer doth oft do him good, ....." Spence It’s hard to describe how much I enjoy these. Thanks, Spence!
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 17, 2022 12:57:12 GMT -7
Bison bladders were also used for water...mmmmmmm, delicious! Like this: <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> They also used the pericardium around the bison heart, what they called 'heart skin': <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Spence Still. No.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 17, 2022 13:02:40 GMT -7
I have a very nice one I've made, several from the pattern. I'd be more than happy to send you my full template. However... they are HEAVY. While extremely nice, the one you see is roon dyed and sewn with heavy linen. I'd opt for a gourd, hands down. Good project for sure, but you won't catch me carrying this costral round the forest... I do line my gourds, but I personally don't feel it's needed. I go about using beeswax because I have access to blocks free of charge so it costs me nothing but time and the good smell of wax. That looks great, Hawkeyes! Does it have a separate bottom? Between what you and the Hand have shown, I should be ok. Your hand in the pic gives good scale. I’ll make a gourd eventually. But I have this side of veg tan from making ax masks right here staring at me. Maybe I’ll start with a small one for birdshot to get the hang of things…
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Post by spence on May 17, 2022 14:09:23 GMT -7
So, RyanAK, you say yuck to bison bladder canteens, but cow skin is OK? I presume that means your would give a pass to the Indian habit of using bear's gut for storing bear oil? John Dabney Shane interview with George Fearis about booty recovered when an Indian raiding party was attacked... "Took 7 or 8 bridles that they had taken with the horses, a brass kettle holding about a gallon, 1/2 bushel jerk, a bears gut 1 1/2 or 2 yards long full of bear’s fat and 7 or 8 deer-skins." Scoouwa, the Captivity Narrative of James Smith: "We then got some sugar, bears oil bottled up in a bears gut, and some dry venison, which we packed up, and went up Canesaooharie, about thirty miles." I love my gourd canteens. Spence
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 17, 2022 14:25:04 GMT -7
So, RyanAK, you say yuck to bison bladder canteens, but cow skin is OK? I presume that means your would give a pass to the Indian habit of using bear's gut for storing bear oil? John Dabney Shane interview with George Fearis about booty recovered when an Indian raiding party was attacked... "Took 7 or 8 bridles that they had taken with the horses, a brass kettle holding about a gallon, 1/2 bushel jerk, a bears gut 1 1/2 or 2 yards long full of bear’s fat and 7 or 8 deer-skins." Scoouwa, the Captivity Narrative of James Smith: "We then got some sugar, bears oil bottled up in a bears gut, and some dry venison, which we packed up, and went up Canesaooharie, about thirty miles." I love my gourd canteens. Spence Hey, I’m from the land of scrapple - I have some tolerances! Totally ok with oil in bear’s gut. I’ve had interesting meals with the Yupik in Bristol Bay. For some reason drinking vessels made of digestive or uninary organs trips my gag reflex. Maybe because it’s liquid.
But… I can see how a bladder or other vessel would be light and handy in the woods.
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 17, 2022 15:10:12 GMT -7
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 17, 2022 15:11:34 GMT -7
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Post by Black Hand on May 17, 2022 16:36:45 GMT -7
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Post by spence on May 17, 2022 17:13:06 GMT -7
RyanAK said, "For some reason drinking vessels made of digestive or uninary organs trips my gag reflex." Not to worry. When you get your leather, wood or gourd canteen lined with bee spit you'll be OK. My wife's family, German heritage, made scrapple, love it. Mine never made scrapple, their thing was pork head cheese. Love that too, haven't had any for several decades. The old ways were the good ways, IMNSDHO. Sorry. Back to your regularly scheduled thread. Spence
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Post by brokennock on May 17, 2022 19:15:42 GMT -7
As to how old leather canteens might be... BLACKJACKS AND LEATHER BOTTLELS, by Oliver Baker...the author says, "the doggeral is early, maybe 16th or 17th century." page 36 "Showing how glasses and pots are laid aside, And Flaggons and Noggins they cannot abide, And let all wives do what they can, 'Tis for the praise and use of a Man, And this you may very well be sure, The leather Bottel will longest endure: And I wish in Heaven his soul may dwell that first devised the Leather Bottel." page 44 "Thus you may hear of a Leather Bottel, when as it is filled with good liquor well, Though the substance of it be but small, yet the name of a thing is all. Ther's never a Lord, Earl, or Knight, but in a Bottel doth take delight: For when he is hunting of the Deer, he often doth wish for a Bottell of Beer: Likewise the man that works at the Wood, a Bottel of Beer doth oft do him good, ....." Spence Truly enjoyable, made me smile, thank you.
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Post by brokennock on May 17, 2022 19:19:46 GMT -7
Bison bladders were also used for water...mmmmmmm, delicious! Like this: View AttachmentThey also used the pericardium around the bison heart, what they called 'heart skin': View AttachmentSpence Pericardium I could do. I certainly enjoy venison heart prepared many different ways, so I have no issue here. Bladder or stomach? Well,,, I might get a little OCD cleaning them before I'd be willing to use them as a water container. I wonder if there is any history of smoking them before use as a container. This would kill bacteria and possibly cover any "off" flavors.
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Post by hawkeyes on May 18, 2022 5:11:03 GMT -7
I have a very nice one I've made, several from the pattern. I'd be more than happy to send you my full template. However... they are HEAVY. While extremely nice, the one you see is roon dyed and sewn with heavy linen. I'd opt for a gourd, hands down. Good project for sure, but you won't catch me carrying this costral round the forest... I do line my gourds, but I personally don't feel it's needed. I go about using beeswax because I have access to blocks free of charge so it costs me nothing but time and the good smell of wax. That looks great, Hawkeyes! Does it have a separate bottom? Between what you and the Hand have shown, I should be ok. Your hand in the pic gives good scale. I’ll make a gourd eventually. But I have this side of veg tan from making ax masks right here staring at me. Maybe I’ll start with a small one for birdshot to get the hang of things… Yes, bottom is a separate piece sewn to both sides and the welts. I don't care how HC it is, I'm not drinking from a bladder, nutsack or stomach, not happening!
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 18, 2022 8:24:16 GMT -7
Thanks, Hawkeyes. I’m going to start with a small container for shot to get my leather skills back in order. Apparently I’m out of thread, so it’ll be a couple days until I can get it sewn up. Between what you and Black Hand provided, I should be good.
I do want to look at using a bottle, either simply put in my pack, or wrapped in leather. Does anyone have a source for appropriate glassware?
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RyanAK
City-dweller
Once scalped…
Posts: 973
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Post by RyanAK on May 18, 2022 14:04:29 GMT -7
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Post by Black Hand on May 18, 2022 15:01:27 GMT -7
Any craft store (usually not big box store craft centers) should have beeswax. You may experience sticker-shock when you find it...
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