18th Century Original Shot Pouches and Ball Bags/Pouches

How so?  

Gus

And how would that amateur make the stitching and stitching spacing as precisely as those made by a professional with a pricking iron or pricking wheel?

Gus

Wow. Great discussion. I’ll carefully consider what I have to add and write more tomorrow, but I briefly wanted to interject a few points and offer myself as a test subject for a type of experiential archeology. 

First, some brief thoughts. 

Most men and women were entering the frontier with a certain amount of life experience and a skill set that could vary from very few to extensive. Few of us are born to the wilderness. We come from somewhere.

Many successful people have the ability to learn quickly to do good work. 

Women were constructing garments with few professional tailor’s or millinery tools.

Anyone can make a ruler. It’s called a stick. Or a ‘story pole’. It’s one of my favorite tools.  

Babes in the woods didn’t last long. 


My experiential archeology proposal:

I’ve made a jackware birdshot flask with a few images, extremely limited tools, and advice from those that have gone before. It doesn’t look like a professional piece, but that isn’t what I was trying for. I typically like my made objects to have a little warmth and an impression of use. I generally don’t like crisp, new things. 

I’m currently working on a frock (smock). This is my first experience with linen and hand sewing. I have office scissors, some pins and needles, and (now) good thread. I now have about 140” of stitching in my life experience. My back stitches are now pretty damn good. I saw a few pictures and read a section of a book. Also a very short video that substitutes for my mother or sister showing me how to do a proper back stitch. The shirt is going to be pretty good. 

I’ve made a few simple ax masks from veg tan. 

And, I’ve made things all my life. I’ve just always had the ability to understand craft. 

So… maybe I’m a good test subject to make a ‘frontier’ shot pouch? I’m new to all this. I’ve never made a pouch, haven’t studied pouches, own zero books on pouches. I’ve looked at a few photos and understand the basics of their construction and purpose in use. I’m kind of in the position of someone on the edges of civilization that needs a shot pouch and has determined to make one for himself. 

So what I propose is this: give me an example ‘professional’ piece and I’ll copy it. Now… not something with elaborate trim work or insanely complicated construction methods, but an average 1750s pouch that would have been purchased from a skilled maker. Leather strap and all. 

I’ll use the amateur’s tools I have on hand: awl, stitching needles, knife. And a stick. I love sticks. These are things that would be available to any homesteader and should be in any woodsman’s kit. 

I’d say it’s reasonable to assume that linen or hemp thread could be procured and that a button and buckle are able to realistically be acquired from some trading post or itinerant peddler. 

Leather. Whatever is appropriate. Add leather choice to the spec of the example bag to be made. 

I’ll make it, document the build, and post photos for review and comment at the end. I’ll build in a void as if segregated from assistance on the frontier.  I’ll even mail the pouch off if anyone wants a really close look at the finished work. Hell… I’ve done that with $3,000 fly rods, so no worries here. 

If you want to provide the leather, you can have the pouch when I’m done. 

Anything else? What say ye? Is there value in something like this? 

Same way I did to get even stitching when applying the binding on my hat brim (can't use a pricking iron on cloth), I used a spacing gauge. In my case just a tiny scrap of wood the same width I wanted my stitches spaced.
Before having knowledge of pricking irons, much less owning one, I also used a ruler to lay out the spacing. This seems more doubtful for the frontier, but possible a bit of wood could have had spacing marks put on it for various projects.

I don't totally agree or totally disagree with either side here. I do think it is possible an amateur could have had an inate knack for leather work, enjoyed it thus practiced, and turned out some decent work. Probably not commonly or frequently. Maybe they hung out at the local harness makers shop as a kid in the settlement they left behind to head to the frontier?

Also, quite often the professional work that looks like an untrained monkey made it, was made to look that way intentionally.

To my thinking, as someone who does very middle of the road work (at best), not having the talent of you, PAranger, Hawkeyes, Black Hand,,,,, okay pretty much everyone else here,,,,, the amateur issue isn't the stitch spacing. The more telltale issue would be the pattern/shape/pieces the bag is made of. Would our amateur know to make and use a pattern? Would they be able to cut out those pieces with precision? I think this is where we are far more likely to get that "L" shaped piece of leather made into a one piece bag, or a long rectangle folded and sewn up the sides, most likely with goofy looking corners when "turned."

Having the knowledge to use welts or how to attach a strap could have been had by simple observation. And I'm betting there were certain aspects of making many things that were passed around as common knowledge, that aren't now.

I just don't get this rosetta stone: the magic pricking wheel. Scarcely anyone I know uses one, and yet some of them sew leather very neatly. I had never heard of them when I started. It doesn't matter, though, because I find them pretty useless.

We can't use women making clothing for their families as an example for amateur leatherworking as girls were trained (went through an unofficial apprenticeship) all their young lives until they married, as taught to them by their mothers, aunts, grandparents, etc.  This was a skill expected of them for survival to clothe their families.  

You have said your persona was a tavern keeper who sold out to move to the frontier. 

Did you apprentice at or was taught the trade or skills of a Joiner as a young man before getting into that profession?  Yes, a story stick or a winding stick would help with straight edges and measuring, as long as it was made with a proper size hand plane so it was flat and true.  You could also make your own wooden square with the tools and knowledge of that trade, as both items would have been things you would have learned early on.  You would also have learned to use dividers in that trade and that would have been very helpful to lay out your stitching lines from the edge of the leather uniformly to make your stitching look better and that would have made your construction more uniform.  The training of using your eyes to see if something was straight/true and the attention to detail of that trade would also be useful for making a better looking amateur pouch.   If you still had the basic tools of a joiner all those years after running a tavern and your eyes were still as good, yes, I'm sure you could have made a better looking pouch than the average person on the frontier AFTER you had been on the frontier for some time and you had already done all the other things necessary for basic subsistence.

What you would not have had even with this additional training was a pricking wheel or iron and the training to use it, or other tools professionals used to make their pouches so well, even in their plain work.  Would you have taken the time to measure out 8 stitches or more per inch to stitch it like professionals did, even if you knew that was how they did it, when that was not necessary to make the pouch?  


Gus